Are Credit Scores a Form of Economic Control? Understanding the System

SPEAKER_01 0:00

I just feel like we've been broke for so long that our spirits have been broken. And if it's not for people like yourself and the young man sitting to the right of me, and all the other amazing people who have an advantage, a mental advantage, the mindset advantage, the actual transaction advantage, the experience advantage. You can have all the education in the world and still be stupid as I'm glad you chose that F-word, because I was gonna say it differently.

SPEAKER_04 1:00

This is your boy Darren Hart, and I'm joined by Marie Shabazz, and this is Financial State of Minds, and this is a show where I help you get to that bag, manage that bag, and grow that bag as best as possible. And you're tapped in into KGPC96.9 FM, streaming right now on KGPC969.org and available shortly after on all streaming platforms of choice. And today we're rejoined, or really officially joined on my podcast for the first time. We got cash in the building, very needed for this episode. I mean, if we're gonna have a show about money, we need someone named Cash on the show. So Cash, welcome to the show. Thank you for joining the show officially for the first time because the last episode was um on your guys' show. Um so was it? Yeah, technically, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:45

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:46

It was really financially like focused, but it was um a rock, paper, scissors, scissors episode, technically.

SPEAKER_01 1:52

Oh wow, you're so good.

SPEAKER_04 1:55

So yeah, so Shabazz, what are we talking about today? So our credit scores a modern form of economic control. Yeah, you put that idea out, and I was like, oh yeah, that'd be a good one for us to discuss. So without further ado, let's just jump right on it. Shabazz, it was your idea, so I'll let you lead. How do you feel about that?

SPEAKER_02 2:17

Well, the short answer is yes. I do feel that credit scores are a form of economic control, but I think it's a lot of other factors and data points that come to play. Race, age, gender. So there's several other factors. Your geographical area, the zip code that you operate out of or that you live at. All those are factors. But yes, it is a form of economic control. They do, the system does discriminate and determine how we lend and who we lend to. It has always been that way. I don't see that changing, at least not in my lifetime. So yeah, when it comes down to it, you can have excellent credit, right? And I mean, Darren, you got excellent credit, right? Yes. And there's still some a level of scrutiny, even when you apply, right? And the only reason why I know this because I've been doing credit for so long, and I've done personal funding, I've done business funding for different races, different, all kind of factors that uh factor in. And when I look at certain people, and when we apply for credit, or apply for funding, I'll tell you a story. I think that's probably the easiest way. Had a uh this person gonna probably gonna know I'm talking about him, but I had a friend. His name, last name was Shapiro, right? Which is theoretically Jewish last name.

SPEAKER_01 3:47

It sounded rich.

SPEAKER_02 3:49

But he was not Jewish, right? Yeah, his whole name, uh I ain't gonna say his whole name, just his last name, right? Yes.

SPEAKER_01 3:59

His whole name is what looks good on paperwork.

SPEAKER_02 4:03

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 4:04

So, yeah, let's hear this story.

SPEAKER_02 4:06

And he lived in Silicon Valley, right? So getting high limits, it was easy. No problem, right? And whereas another friend of mine that actually had an 800 credit score, had mortgages and that was paid off, had everything that you any component of credit that you could think of, he had reported in good standard on his credit, and his approval limits were half with the same particular banks. And he lived in Oakland. He owned his house, but that didn't make a difference. You see what I'm saying? So there is a level of scrutiny, and it is a form of economic control. It's not an equal playing field when it comes to how they lend and issue credit. Castro, what you think? How you feel about it?

SPEAKER_01 5:00

I agree with everything you just said. I just know coming out the gate for somebody like myself and my demographic black female not being taught the structure of credit and what credit can do for you and how you're supposed to use it. You're supposed to make more money with credit, not necessarily go buy more things with credit. But when you are in that geographic space of survival, that's mostly what you see people do. They want to utilize their credit to get more things instead of utilizing the credit to make more money for you, which in the long run is essentially what's supposed to happen. So for me, that's always gonna be a form of control in extension.

SPEAKER_04 5:53

Yeah, so Shabazz is the OG in the game. I've only been in the game a couple of years now, so whatever he says, I'm gonna take more. But I will say like kind of my not opinion, but just my experience. I know I don't, I'm not the I don't have the typical African American experience when it comes to money. Money, I've said it in the show plenty of times. I came up pretty relatively middle class, upper middle class, almost teetering. And money was not really an issue growing up as a child. And one thing that I do know, and I always think my parents jokingly is my full name's white. You know, my full name is Darren James Harvey. The running joke is I have three white man's first names.

SPEAKER_01 6:35

Yeah, you do.

SPEAKER_04 6:36

So I know, and the address or where I grew up in is not a known quote unquote ghetto, a known quote unquote hood, known quote unquote lower economic area. It was a middle class area. So I had a lot of advantages that more relates, I'll just be blunt, more white people can relate to, more Asian people can relate to than African Americans can relate to. But even though I haven't experienced some of the um BS that goes around, I know it happens, right? I've definitely heard stories and I've definitely seen documentaries, one that sticks out to mind, and it actually happened in California, is it was an actual test. It was a black woman and a white man, and they were trying to sell their house and they were getting it evaluated. So, or praised, excuse me, they're getting it praised. So they literally did a test because the first time they did it, it was the their pictures, right? It was family pictures and the kids looked black. They looked, you know, they're clearly mixed, but they looked black, and the evaluation came in lower than what they expected. So what they literally did is they took down all of the um pictures of the wife and the kids, and they just had pictures of the husband and his side of the family, which is again white, and then they had it re-evaluated, and then the evaluation was higher by several hundred thousand dollars. So it's it's a real thing. It's a real thing. And what I can say is, even though it's not been my personal experience, I will say that just the nature of how credit evaluation works, the very nature of it is kind of, for lack of better words, discriminatory, right? It literally is a discriminatory system. That's what it is, that is what the evaluation process is. They're trying to discriminate against people who they feel they can't pay back. So the very nature of it is discriminatory, so it's gonna discriminate no matter what. And unfortunately, it does discriminate against our people, this point-link, period. So speaking of that, Shabazz, you know, you being the expert between us three, what is that evaluation process look like?

SPEAKER_02 8:50

When you say evaluation process, are you referring to like when somebody actually applies the credit?

SPEAKER_04 8:56

Yeah, so not only speak on application, but the actual system in place that evaluates that application.

SPEAKER_02 9:06

Well, that's a good question. It's actually a loaded question. But what happens is when somebody applies online for an application, now it has an electronic algorithm, right? And there's several different data points that it checks, you know, and of course a computer could do these things real very relatively quickly, regular than a than a human or underwriter or something like that, right? So what it does is it takes all the data that you submit in that application. It's gonna factor in, of course, all the credit factors, the length of your credit, the age of your credit, what kind of credit accounts you got, what kind of limits are you currently responsible for, your payment history. It's gonna factor in all those things on your credit. That's just for your credit report. Right. Address. They know you could say, because a lot of times when you have good credit, you could just put stated information. They're not asking for documentation to prove these things. So they have to have a system in place that's gonna give them the data that they need. So they know how what is your profession. Okay, I work as a maintenance man, right? I'm a manager for a complex, right? They know how much managers or maintenance men in that zip code are making on average, right? Same with business. They know how much a car dealership is making in that zip code, right? They know the average amount of revenue that they would generate. So if you project the numbers too high or something, it's gonna level you out, right? And then gender, race, so those other factors, and there's several other, it's way more data points, and I'm I'm just mentioning some of the main ones. Right, right? So, and it takes all that data and then it determines if they're gonna issue you credit, how much credit they're gonna issue it, and what the terms are gonna be. Okay, and for us, the terms are not positioned for you to be for it to be in your favor. It's uh quite the opposite, and that's why it is controlled. Because as long as we can keep you in a position of debt, because think about it. If let's say you apply for a credit card, and that credit card had the benefits of that credit card had 0% balance transfer, right? And uh you don't pay no interest for the first year or 18 months or whatever that introductory period is. And let's say, I'm just gonna be frank, let's just say they know you're black. And let's say they see that you got about maybe 20 or 30,000 in credit card debt, but according to what you have, your utilization is still in a good place, right? Okay, we're not gonna give you enough credit to 0% all that out. We're just gonna give you just enough, maybe just maybe 25, 20 to 25 percent, maybe. Because that's empowerment. If I could just transfer all my debt to a 0% APR for a year, 18 months, that helps immensely. Because the credit cards on average are average right now, around hovering around about 15, 16%, up to 20 something percent. Like that's if you get a good credit card.

SPEAKER_04 12:38

I'm about to say it's higher than that, man. It's like in the 20s.

SPEAKER_02 12:41

Yeah, it's in the 20s. Right well, yeah, you're right. Right now, used to 16 was actually, yeah, it's actually in the 20s. So on average, it is about 20%. So I'm we're gonna basically get you in a position where you don't you're not paying uh a 20% APR. You see what I'm saying? They're not going to do that. Now, if you're somebody else and you're in the right geographical area, you have you check all the data points that they usually like to see, then that's different. You're it's gonna be a totally different outcome. So that's the thing, they don't want to empower. Like, for example, you could get a student loan right off the bat. It doesn't require credit or anything, right? Um, the wealthy, their kids don't get student loans. Okay. So automatically, you're in debt as soon as you come out of high school, right? They'll give you a car loan. They'll give you that. No problem, give them a car loan. You know, because a car is gonna depreciate as soon as you drive it off the lot. Yeah, there's no wealth building in that. Yeah, we'll give them that. They'll give you a credit card, they'll give you a home loan, they will give you a home loan. So if you qualify, they'll give you a home loan. But try to get a business loan. Try that. See how hard that is, because it's empowerment. They know if I give you some capital that's gonna empower you to build wealth, they don't want us having that kind of access. And if we do get that kind of access, it's gonna be limited, and it's gonna be a lot of discretion on who we give that access to.

SPEAKER_04 14:29

Cash, you just heard all of that. How do you feel about that?

SPEAKER_01 14:33

It's interesting because I'm sitting here thinking as a consumer and as a woman, all of these stipulations that are put on you in regards to your credit. And it oftentimes falls back on your credibility. Are you responsible? Can we trust you? We're not gonna give you this because you can't show us this. We're not gonna allow you to be having, or we're not gonna allow you to have access to this because of where you live. It just scares me because how can we ever elevate or go to the next level if we always have to succumb to this type of mindset? And the credit is what controls you. If you don't have enough credit, then you don't have essentially what you need to survive or provide for your family. If you don't have enough credit to go get a car, how can you get back and forth to work? Everything plays a part in the way we live life, and it's unfortunate that that is something that is hanging over everyone's head. Do you have good enough credit to live in a good neighborhood where you can feel safe, where you can thrive, where you'll be able to be a responsible human being and be productive in your community? To me, credit has it's like a trifecta. It all has a point, and it all has to do with how you were raised, where you were raised, what it is you have to offer when you get of age, how you're managing what you have to offer, and what can we get back from you when you get to that point? Are you able to sustain it? Are you able to destroy it? How can we use you to keep you down? So I just think like the mindset is really what I'm concerned about. If we don't have the appropriate tools to know how to function with the credit, then we don't have the credibility to sustain ourselves.

SPEAKER_04 16:36

You mentioned, and I was gonna I was actually gonna speak on this, and you mentioned it perfectly. It's and Shabazz explained it perfectly. Part of the system is based off of where you live. Can you get me into Danville when I'm born? Can we live there? No, if your mom can barely afford, daddy's not there, or the 2B daddy's not there, mom can only afford to live in a certain amount of places. So then you're born there, that's your recondental address. And then now you grow up. So let's just assume you you're an A plus student in the hood, you're dodging, you're ducking all the BS that the hood can bring you. Let's just say you even get grants and scholarships and stuff like that. Let's just say you don't have to take a student loan, which if you go to a prestigious school, you will have to take a student loan. But let's just say you get all that accommodated. Your recondental address is still in the hood. So you still get discriminated in that way. And that has nothing to do with your control. And that's the kind of part that I don't like. And I don't know what Shabazz knows. He's been in the game 10 times longer as me, but just knowing the system, that's why I wanted him to explain the system. In my opinion, part of the system should not go, oh, because of where you live is going to determine like how much money we give you, right? That is no longer personal, right?

SPEAKER_01 18:08

But the system is just like that. I think about how I'm um placed to vote. It's because of my address. Right. You know what I'm saying? And so it already has those stipulations on you to where you're not allowed to cross this line. Right. So if you already coming out of the womb, like you said, and you already up against so much adversity, how do you change your mindset to push through so you can start prevailing? Like seriously.

SPEAKER_04 18:39

Well, I'm not gonna speed on that because I didn't come from that environment, but we do have another person sitting here who did come from that environment. So Shabazz, Cash asked a very powerful question. Credit is based off of the system that you just explained, and people inherently who just happen to be lucky, and I'm one of them. I just happen to be lucky and born into a better situation than a lot of our people that look like me. Shabazz, how does somebody who doesn't have that advantage get the right mindset and get them out of a situation so that they could be in a better situation?

SPEAKER_02 19:14

You gotta use You gotta use these things to your advantage. You gotta use credit, the amount of credit that they are gonna issue or they have issued you to your advantage. And that's the only way that you beat the system. You have to know the system and you have to operate like the wealthy. You can't operate like everybody else in the hood. If you operate like that, you are going to lose. You're just gonna be a part of the statistic that most people in this geographical area will default, right? And that's what I'm I always tell people like if you want to position yourself to build wealth, you need to emulate what people who build wealth do, right? And that's the thing, and that's why I always say this, like this whole mindset when it comes to finance, when it comes to money, it has to be, it's not so much of just doing different things. It's not so much of, I mean, it is changing the behavior, but before before the behavior, what supersedes the behavior is the mindset, right? Because we have these values that are these core values that have been so embedded in us where we get our financial uh behavior and our financial spending habits from just the people that we're around, that we grew up around, our parents, our friends, our peers, and they have poor money mindsets, and we adopt those same mindsets. And in order to break that, just think about it, you have to do things the total opposite of how you've been doing it. Because you've been doing it all wrong, all along, you know, and that's the thing that we have to start understanding. We've been doing it all wrong, all along. And it's not our fault, don't get me wrong. The level of financial education that people who are more privileged or are born come up in better households and in better environments and communities, they have an advantage. So we don't have that same financial education that they have, right? So we need to, and I sat with a brother here yesterday, he said he didn't start learning about this stuff until he was in his 50s, right? So just thinking, you coming at way that far in the game, and it really doesn't matter how far, but just think if he had started was able or in a position to have that same knowledge when he got out of high school, where would he have been at this point in his life? It would be totally different. I I could almost guarantee it. See what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_01 21:51

Can I ask a question? As I learned more about credit, I just feel like high school was too late. I feel like everybody. Else is learning about what to do, how to do it, and where to go get it at from grade school. And they're growing up with it. They're being taught how to manage it very young and how to make it work for them. So, you know, the difference for us is I hear a lot of people, my credit done been messed up when I was nine years old. Again, it goes back to family, friends, and peers and how people use it for desperation, for advancement, or whatever it is. But at the same token, if we were teaching about financial state of minds in the bathroom when we was taught to brush our teeth, when we was taught to first start walking, we'd have a better advantage. Right. So the mindset, we can't wait to high school when we go to economics class. We got to go after it as well for ourselves. And so that means people like you two have to be willing to put things like financial state of minds, prodigy, information that's going to be at a level to whereas people can understand it. You mess up things that you don't understand. When you don't have accessibility to things, when you do get it, it's just like I'm gonna go crazy with it. Because I ain't never had it before. And if I get it, then I mean I probably should just do everything I can do with it right now. Because that's how we've been taught. I want to talk about like the solution of it. And I wanted to say to you that yes, you are fortunate and lucky because you have been brought up in something that's rare to a lot of us. But it's not that we've never seen it, it's not that we've never seen it, but it also is that when we do see it, we just don't understand. And so some people don't take the time to explain or share. So then you go back to the mindset of, well, they think they're better than me, or if I got what they had, so I'm gonna go and take it because I don't have it. All of that goes back to that trifecta, your credit, your credibility, and it's just where are we gonna when are we gonna get to the point to where is how can this affect me in a good way instead of a positive way? I mean, how can it affect me in a good way instead of a negative way?

SPEAKER_04 24:36

So Shabazz, I want to ask a question. So we on this show, me and you, we always talk about, okay, mindset, we, you know, credit is meant to build wealth, not to build consumerism, all that stuff. But and I have said plenty of times on this show, most people that I deal with, they just spend too much money on dumb stuff, for lack of better words.

SPEAKER_01 24:57

Your app told me that.

SPEAKER_04 25:01

However, there are a lot of people who they don't. They don't spend a lot of their money on their dumb stuff. They're all their money is going to needs. They're going, it's going to the rent, it's going to the insurances, it's going to groceries, it's going to, especially if they have kids, it goes to the kids. It's expensive. It goes to day daycare. It's absolutely ridiculously expensive and calm for it. So, Shabazz, what do you tell somebody who you see? Let's just say you're working with them, you're seeing when you do their plan that they're barely spending in their needs on their wants. It's all needs. That's where the spend is going. They're in the hood. They're in their age, they're in their 30s.

SPEAKER_01 25:44

You can use me.

SPEAKER_04 25:45

They're trying. You can use cash if you want. But what would you tell somebody in a similar situation where they're already not doing dumb stuff and all they have as their emergency fund, as their last ditch, as their if something goes wrong, is that$500, that$1,000 credit card. What do you tell them?

SPEAKER_02 26:08

It's really simple to me, because I've been there and you take the same concept of uh, let's say uh Robert Kiyosaki, the red rich dad, poor dad. We are doing the we were basically on a program and we're doing everything that they told us to do within the program. You know, go to school, get a job, right? This is the problem. You are making the same money. You're you well, you might get a dollar raise or something like that. You're making less. You're making the same money. You have so many things that are stacked against you, you have to beat inflation. That's one of them. The second thing, you have to beat taxes. Okay. So if you stay on that hamster wheel, that's gonna be your fate. That is gonna be your fate. And you think, and when you look at it, you got the people who control the most wealth is what, one percent? One percent, and then you got all these other people doing the same thing. You know, that's the crazy part about it. Everybody is working from check to check. Not everybody, but majority of the workforce is working check to check. There's a problem with that. Like, if you go get an entry-level position at McDonald's, right here where we're in California, in Oakland, California, that is not even enough to pay your rent. Absolutely not. Nope. So the system is rigged, it's not set up for, hey, you could work a regular entry job and you could take care of a family and you could buy a house. It's not set up for that. If you operate within in this system, you are not going to find yourself in a position of wealth. You are not, and I hate to say it, you are going to have to break out of that mindset and you're gonna have to do some other things different. You're gonna have to start learning how to invest, whether you got a lot of money or whether you got a little money, you're gonna have to start learning how to take those few coins and you're gonna have to start learning how to invest. You're gonna have to start learning how to get a side hustle, you're gonna have to make more money. The solution is simple make more money. That's it. And instead of always constantly working for the money, you got to start making the money work for you. That's that's the thing that we're not doing. How many people are in a position where they got the money working for them? Man, it's a small percentage if you look on a wide scale.

SPEAKER_04 28:54

Right.

SPEAKER_02 28:55

So the problem is that we have been only trained and programmed to work for the money. To trade the valuable time that you have on this earth and give it to an employer. Even if you go to college for business, they're not teaching you how to be an entrepreneur. I went to school for business administration, I could tell you. Well, in one of the most prestigious colleges and took their business administration program, they did not teach me how to be an entrepreneur, they taught me how to be an employee. So, what I'm saying is the game is rigged. You know what I'm saying? I mean, you saw Donald Trump, he said it the other day. Yeah. He said, it's rigged. Yeah. So, and but people hear this, and I feel like black people, we are the most naive. The most naive. I said it, we are the most naive when it comes to this. Because we will see the truth dead in our face, and we will turn the turn our heads or turn the other cheek and just say, oh well, and just keep going about our merry way. Instead of saying, it's a problem with this. Something needs to change.

SPEAKER_01 30:02

It's a problem because you have a businessman telling you that the system is rigged and people not paying attention to that. That's a problem. Whether I like the theatrics or the moves that the man makes when it comes to policy and politics, I'm not into that. I know we're not talking about that, but I'm saying as a businessman, he has utilized business as leverage to get to do what he wants to do. He became the president more than one time. Why? Because he had the money to position himself to get to the power. He utilized that on the backs of people like us, and now he's sitting on top of us, hovering down, saying, Well, you know the game is rigged. Y'all just have to deal with it the best way y'all can.

SPEAKER_04 30:59

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 31:00

Even though I promised y'all that the egg prices was gonna go down, gas was gonna go down, and y'all wasn't gonna have to work as hard. This is the reality of it from me sitting up here. So I agree with you on people learning other things to make them be in a position to better themselves. But I also think that people are tired of hearing that. And if you don't have what it takes with your mind or the skills to do that, then you're gonna be stuck. And there's a lot of people there that are stuck, even people who have had an advantage have effed it up. Right. And so we don't talk about that as much as we talk about the people that's poor, that's complaining, that don't have what it takes. We don't talk about that either. About how people have had it and lost it and never got it back.

SPEAKER_04 31:57

Right, right, and I was gonna speak on that. Like, you're absolutely right. There is, yes, the spotlight, for lack of better words, is on African Americans who didn't, they didn't grow up in an advanced situation like I did. However, there are plenty of African Americans who did grow up in a situation like me, and then once the wealth transferred, they fumbled the bag, basically, for black or better words, they fumbled the bag. I know so many people who they inherited what I inherited similarly, lesser, maybe even more, and then they blew it all. And it goes back to the culture, and that's one thing that I'm I'm trying to do with financial state of minds, me and Shabazz are trying to do with financial state of minds, is change the culture of how we're thinking, how we're believing, because we're not the only minorities in this country that don't have much.

SPEAKER_01 32:49

Let me ask you this is it the culture or is it the discipline?

SPEAKER_04 32:53

The culture, let's take rap music. The criticism that rap music has gotten since the 90s is that it's destructive music, right? It we talk about negativity. So we've been doing that my entire life. I'm 36. It's been happening my entire life. So there's a culture of negativity that's promoted through rap music. Now, if we just made a bunch of music about being businessmen, being doctors, lawyers, financial management, there'd be a different culture. And I'm just using music for example, but it ties into everything. If we didn't think that the only way getting out of the hood was picking up a ball and bouncing it or throwing it, and maybe getting out the hood is becoming a doctor, a lawyer, or high value education that commands a lot of money or an engineer and stuff like that, and that was more in the culture, then honestly, I'll be blunt. That's the difference between the Asian community in a lot of ways. This one of the differences is many, of course. But one of the big differences between the Asian community and the black community is both of them start from ground zero. A lot of them do. However, it's in their culture to go, okay, we're all broke, but we're gonna put it all on this person to go win. And this person is gonna be a doctor. If you're not, you're like that's not an option. You're gonna be a doctor. And I know that there's problems that come with it, but hey, in one generation, they're out of it, they're out the hood in one generation, and that's where it starts. That's where it starts. It's the culture and the discipline, like you said. Okay, here's what we're gonna do, and here's the discipline. You're coming home with A's and B's, you're not coming home with D's and Fs. And that's accepted in the family. So that is what I try to push, and that's what we need to do a better job about in our culture, is really making the right choices. It's even though we're in a bad situation, we need to make the right choices. Our kids can't just go, oh, you're gonna go to college and get a sociology degree or a communication degree or an English degree. Not that I have anything against social degrees, but those degrees don't pay you 120 out the gate. There are degrees that pay you 120 out the gate in California. There are degrees, bachelor degrees, that pay you$100,000 out the gate. You make$100,000 out the gate. I don't care where you are in California, you're no longer living in the hood. You're no longer living in the hood. But that's the culture that we need to start improving and shifting. And I do see some of it, but it's there's not enough of a spotlight. And that's kind of what be you you were asking about solutions. That's the solution I would give to somebody who's in the hood with barely any credit, barely anything is hey, I acknowledge that this is gonna be harder for you than the person who lives two cities down. It is absolutely gonna be harder for you, but that doesn't mean it's not possible, and that's what we need to cling on as African Americans. As long as we have a possibility, there's hope. If there's hope, we can get out of the situation. We've gotten out of worse. And I've said that before.

SPEAKER_01 36:02

I like that. I I absolutely agree to some extent. I just feel like we've been broke for so long that our spirits have been broken. And if it's not for people like yourself and the young man sitting to the right of me, and all the other amazing people who have an advantage, a mental advantage, the mindset advantage, the actual transaction advantage, the experience advantage. You can have all the education in the world and still be stupid as a facts. I'm glad you chose that F-word because I was gonna say a different one. So I'm I I I just feel as though like everybody likes to compare the culture to black people when the culture was stripped from us. And when I say stripped from us, everything that I feel like I know about that we've created, we've been exposed to, and we've shared with the world, we don't make jack stuff off of it. But everybody makes stuff off of us, if that makes sense. That's right. So that tells me I can't go to Black Wall Street in Richmond, but I can go to Chinatown. I'm charged six dollars to use the ATM in Chinatown. That's a problem. When I can't go to where I live at and use the ATM for myself, because the black banks, they exist, but they don't exist in the hood. So how are we going to get to the point to where we have something for ourselves? I'm sitting here talking to people with money. I don't never have a problem with talking to people with money, right? My mama named me cash Shinda. Cash in the bank. I believe it to be so, even though I have not cashed a check yet. I'm still hopeful, as you just said, right? I'm still learning and applying the knowledge to the discipline and the training. Do we fall? Do we get back up? Do we make mistakes? Yes, but you have to be accountable to go back and change that with consistency, dedication, and you can't be afraid to ask. Because some people feel like rich people like yourselves are not approachable when it comes to talking about money. We should talk about that too. Because not all people that look like me, you and him, want to talk about money with y'all. Because I don't want to be bamboozled in my credit no more.

SPEAKER_04 38:53

Yeah, it's true. I tell people openly all the time I learned the seeds of personal finance, of course, came from my parents, but the intelligence, the knowledge pool really came from white. They taught me business, and because they taught me business, they taught me investment in finance and stuff like that. And yeah, I'll just say it. White people don't want to share this information so freely. They do now. They're doing a better job now on the internet where they can profit and they get some type of benefit from it.

SPEAKER_01 39:20

Okay, I like you said, better job now.

SPEAKER_04 39:22

Yeah, they're not perfect, they're not all the way. Oh no, they're not. They're not. I've shared, I've I think I've said it on this episode when I got my inheritance and I let certain a crowd of people know oh, people came out of the woodwork and they are like, oh, Darren, you can do A, B, C, and D. And I'm like, I've been in finance for two, three years. Why did I not know this? Wait a minute, you told people? Yeah, because these because these people help me make money. And the unfortunate truth, and we know this, I'll confirm it. Because I'm in the crowd. The in crowd likes to be only in the in crowd.

SPEAKER_01 39:55

I know what that means. Yeah. But can you go in depth about that?

SPEAKER_04 39:58

Yeah, sure. And Shabazz, I want you to expand upon this. But basically, particularly older white people, they like a certain type of person. And unless you're that certain type of person, they're not going to give you information. And one thing that I've learned, especially in the last year, when I got the inheritance and I really worked it and stuff like that, and I made good on investments. Yes, we are in the information age where you can Google something, AI something, and you'll get information. But there's certain information still that you can't Google or Google won't make it clear. That's right. Or maybe even if you can Google it, it's like, is this really real? The credibility, basically. And that's where experts like me and Shabazz are important. Is yes, you can Google some of this information, but we're modeling the information. And that's so important, especially in our community, which is literally why I made the podcast. I say this all the time. A lot of stuff I say on this podcast is the same stuff old white men talk about. But because it's a disabled black man talking about it, it seems more obtainable to people that look like me. And that is super duper important to me. It's like it needs to be. Because it honestly, it didn't become believable to me. It wasn't until the it wasn't the attorneys that made it believable to me. It was the black attorneys who made it believable to me. It was the black entrepreneur, or not even all I'm not sure. Right. There was a lot of Latinos and Asians that I learned from too. That's what made it real to me. But as we wrap up this episode, Shabazz, circling back to the topic, which is credit, we all we kind of all agree it kind of is rigged. There's some things that could, if we were controlling it, it would be changed. But Shabazz, I want to leave you with the last couple of minutes. What would you tell somebody who is trying, whether they're African American, they're disabled, any other disadvantaged community, what would you tell them if they are working towards the right steps, but it's just really hard for them. What advice would you give them?

SPEAKER_02 42:01

Man, it's the same. I tell people all the time, and this is one thing I always, and Cash see me do it. I try to embed this one thought in people's brain every time I get in front of a crowd. I'll ask the question, what is credit used for? You usually nine times out of ten, people don't know the answer. To make more money. But by the time I get done with it, I'll ask them, now what is credit for? And they'll all say, to make more money. So now I know, and that's why I always talk about reprogramming that mindset. Now, if you have the idea that when I use this credit card or I use this credit, I'm gonna put it invested into something that's gonna bring me back a return. That's the thing. We just got to start operating that we have the opportunity. Look, if your credit is not in a good place, work on building it up as high as you possibly can. Everybody has the capability of doing that, correct? Yeah, there's nobody that doesn't have access to uh repairing their credit or building their credit. Everybody can do that, and there's it's so cheap now, it's not expensive. At one point, it yeah, it probably was expensive. Right now, there's so many tools and it's so inexpensive to actually work on your credit. Build it as high as you can. Once you get in a good position, guess what? You can go and you can access capital, you can utilize that capital, just like I'm saying, and put it into things that is going to work for you, make your money work for you. You don't have to worry about the interest now because now you put that money into something that's gonna bring you return, it's gonna take care of that interest and it's gonna give you a profit. That's the key. If you don't have the money, work on your credit. Everybody could do that. There's nobody that can't do that. I mean, you could go to ChatGPT, say, Hey, upload my credit report, give me some dispute letters, boom. Gonna spit it right out. Now, I'm not saying it's gonna do like magic and it's gonna be clean in the first 30 days, but if you be consistent and you continue to work on it, it's gonna happen. It's gonna happen. So I say all that to say that yes, the game is rigged. And and if you look at a lot of the credit repair companies, you look at credit karma expanding, if you look at all their advertisements and their their commercials, it's not, I'm sorry, it's not white people that's on the commercials. Guess who's on the commercials? They're not the face of bad credit. We are. Yeah. You see what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_05 44:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:39

And only we can change that. See what I'm saying? So I say all that to say that is the easiest way to get to a point where you can actually have access to capital and make it work for you.

SPEAKER_04 44:52

Cash, you the motivator. You in the cringes. What would you tell somebody? What would you tell, what's this say, especially, let's just go gin zier mid-20s. He's in the crinches, but again, he or she is trying to get out. They they they the desire is there, but they just need a little bit of motivation. What would you tell them?

SPEAKER_01 45:14

Oh my gin zone, I have one of those, you know.

SPEAKER_04 45:19

That's why I knew you would know.

SPEAKER_01 45:21

And he has a very good credit scar because his mother chose not to utilize him in the wrong way to get advanced or to advance herself, no matter what it looked like. And so I say, I say, from the bottom of my heart, learn as much as you can. Try not to make mistakes that other people make. Lead by the example, make better choices. I just say to my Gen Zope for you as long as you do the right thing. If you don't let it spin you into a whirlwind spiraling down, you still got action and space and room to go up. Learn as much as you can, do your best. You don't have to have every new pair of shoes, you don't have to have all of the new cars. But if you have that money that's working for you, you have access to a better life down the road. So get with some people, get in some places and some rooms like my guy Darren had access to, and utilize it to the best of your ability. Remember, Dr. Shabazz said, make the money work for you. Don't work for the money. And you'll be good and get excited about it. I mean, sometimes we talk about money and it seems depressing.

SPEAKER_06 46:45

Right.

SPEAKER_01 46:46

We get lost in the source to where we don't have it and it's not doing what we want to do for us. You guys have more opportunities than us. What is it, chat cheap pee? What is it, chat peep? Y'all know what I'm trying to say.

SPEAKER_04 46:59

I'm screwing up.

SPEAKER_01 47:00

Y'all have access to so much more. And you have so much more that you can build off of coming out of the gate. Don't allow the trenches to be the only thing that sets the standard for your excuse. Do better, want better, and you'll get better. I love y'all. That's it.

SPEAKER_04 47:17

We're gonna end it right there, you guys. We're out of time.

SPEAKER_01 47:19

That's it.

SPEAKER_04 47:20

Catch, I appreciate you joining the show. I know you're gonna come back for a round two soon. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 47:26

I have to talk to my manager.

SPEAKER_04 47:28

We we we don't cut no checks here, man. Pobo entertainment. I need to go.

SPEAKER_01 47:32

I gotta go.

SPEAKER_04 47:34

Uh financial state of minds is owned, operated, and um gloved by Pobo Entertainment. Yeah. We do we only do stuff for free. That's it.

SPEAKER_01 47:44

Well, here at Stickin' Mood Productions.

SPEAKER_04 47:50

Thank you for joining in as always. I appreciate you guys both. This is Darren, and this has been Financial State of Minds, and you've been tuned into KGPC 96.9 FM. And this is the show where I help you get to that bag, manage that bag, and grow that bag as best as possible as we discuss financial and business literacy and anything and everything to deal with the power of the dollar. Until next episode, peace, kids, and queens. And before I forget, please subscribe, like, share this podcast, leave a comment, let people know that there's a show for them to learn about financial.